leo and luke | KitGuru https://www.kitguru.net KitGuru.net - Tech News | Hardware News | Hardware Reviews | IOS | Mobile | Gaming | Graphics Cards Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:09:57 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/cropped-KITGURU-Light-Background-SQUARE2-32x32.png leo and luke | KitGuru https://www.kitguru.net 32 32 Luke and Leo Get Technical (Ep 12) – AMD Must Respond to Intel 12th Gen https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/luke-and-leo-get-technical-ep-12-amd-must-respond-to-intel-12th-gen/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/luke-and-leo-get-technical-ep-12-amd-must-respond-to-intel-12th-gen/#respond Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:08:55 +0000 https://www.kitguru.net/?p=539671 Intel’s performance offering from the 12th Gen processors is impressive. The gaming crown looks to be back Intel’s hand, and AMD also needs to respond to their overall performance crown being infringed upon. How will AMD respond? And what are the timescales? There’s also the elephant in the room of Apple, with the M1 silicon continuing to make impressive performance strides...

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Intel’s performance offering from the 12th Gen processors is impressive. The gaming crown looks to be back Intel’s hand, and AMD also needs to respond to their overall performance crown being infringed upon. How will AMD respond? And what are the timescales? There’s also the elephant in the room of Apple, with the M1 silicon continuing to make impressive performance strides.

Timestamps:

00:00 Start
00:15 AMD ‘need’ to respond? – Luke and Leo discuss
05:11 Desktop – what is Luke expecting AMD to do …
06:38 Packaging Discussion
08:23 Intel and AMD clocks/cores
11:26 Fork in the technologies / Apple processors / TSMC
15:24 3D Cache desktop parts Zen 3 AM4
16:15 Intel forcing AMD’s hand

Is AMD doomed after Intel 12th Gen?

  • No, of course not!
    • But there does need to be a response in our opinion
  • Intel’s newfound competitiveness is perhaps unexpected
  • Zen 3 with 3D V-Cache will need to be a promising retaliation

Zen 3 with V-Cache Processors:

  • This will be existing Zen 3 architecture on AM4 with DDR4
    • 3D stacking to allow for greater amounts of L3 cache is the key change
  • Using technology from TSMC for stacking – TSV
  • We saw with Zen 3/Zen 2 vs earlier Zen revisions that extra L3 cache can help gaming performance significantly
    • Latency dependent, of course

AMD Accelerated Data Premiere:

  • More focused on data centre and compute technologies
    • But we did gain an insight into some of the upcoming AMD products and technologies
  • MI200 accelerator GPUs, Zen 3 with 3D V-Cache EPYC, Zen 4 EPYC, Zen 4C EPYC
  • EPYC Milan-X with 3D V-Cache will have 768MB of L3 cache on a single CPU(!)
    • That’s a huge amount!
    • Significant performance uplifts highlighted – particularly in workloads such as code compile
  • We would expect (and hope) that 3D V-Cache is a win without losses
    • Hopefully there will not be penalties to like-for-like workloads simply by the addition of the 3D V-Cache when that stacked memory is not be accessed
  • Zen 4/4c EPYC Genoa and Bergamo
    • Up to 128 cores on a single CPU!

What are we expecting AMD to do?

  • Zen 3 with 3D V-Cache will surely be next
    • Probably around early 2022 for actual availability to consumers, we would anticipate
  • Perhaps AMD vs Intel will not battle it out on cores and clocks
    • Now, Intel has its hybrid architecture and AMD is going for a stacked cache approach

Packaging, packaging, packaging:

  • 3D V-Cache for AMD is using TSMC packaging technology
  • Intel has also spoken lots about its packaging technology – Foveros
  • Intel doesn’t seem to have majored on packaging for 12th Gen desktop
    • Sapphire Rapids and Ponte Vecchio on the other hand…
  • AMD, in a sense, will be the first to major on packaging on the desktop with 3D V-Cache
  • The differing approaches for Intel and AMD in the near future are intriguing

Intel versus AMD – cores and clocks:

  • Intel has been higher clock speed in recent history
    • But Zen 3 and 12th Gen realistically change that
    • Now, the clock speed uplift for Intel is realistically quite small on a core-for-core comparison
  • Though is still quicker by something like 10-15%
    • The gap has just narrowed significantly
  • Of course, Intel now has two clock speeds though
    • For the Performance cores and for the Efficient cores
  • How would things change if Intel goes down the route of fewer P cores and more E cores?
    • That would be quite similar to AMD’s Zen 4c approach of a greater number of lower performing cores
  • Greater numbers of lesser performing cores could be increasingly justifiable for parallelisation on desktop applications

Apple has entered the chat:

  • Apple will certainly throw a spanner into the mix with its own chip designs – particularly the current M1 offerings
  • We cannot underestimate Apple’s own designs at this point!
  • How the performance of the M1 chip has been scaled up from the Macbook Air to the higher-end Macbook Pro is impressive
    • When do we see the higher-performance desktop iMac or Mac Pro getting scaled up M1 hardware?
  • Apple has certainly moved very quickly to establish the silicon
    • Intel and AMD cannot mess around!

TSMC is still the great enabler!

  • What Apple has done with the M1 is incredibly impressive
    • But would is have been possible without TSMC?
    • It certainly wouldn’t have been as quickly doable
  • And the same can be said for AMD and Nvidia with their fabless designs that are enabled by TSMC’s manufacturing capabilities
  • Does Apple shift the volumes that could allow it to run its own fabs in the future?
    • Would that even be an Apple thing to do?

When will we see Zen 3 with 3D V-Cache desktop parts?

  • We are still expecting them to run alongside current Zen 3 processors
    • Perhaps this will be a release like the XT part were saw for the Ryzen 3000 series
  • Does CES 2022 still seem like a potential launch point?
    • CES and Computex do still hold significant value to even the industry giants like AMD, Intel, and Nvidia

Zen 3 Threadripper 5000?

  • Is this a dead duck for those expecting or wanting Threadripper 5000?
    • A complete lack of HEDT competition from Intel may not necessitate AMD to launch Zen 3 Threadripper
  • Perhaps Zen 3 Threadripper will be Threadripper Pro only
    • To compete in the enterprise market where Intel does offer plenty of Xeon competition
  • Luke really wants to see Zen 3 Threadripper 5000 for prosumers, not just enterprise workstation via Threadripper Pro
  • A lack of competition on the CPU market can be very, very dangerous after all
    • We all remember Intel’s moves and complacency just before 2017

Intel is forcing AMD to fight back:

  • The 12th Gen processors are just that competitive
  • AMD has to fight back
    • Especially when the more affordable Intel LGA 1700 motherboards hit the market to fight against AMD AM4 B550

Discuss on our Facebook page HERE.

KitGuru says: Intel 12th Gen has certainly been a shot across the bow towards AMD. There has to be a response, so will Zen 3 with 3D V-Cache be just that? Time will tell.

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Leo and Luke Tech Talk (April 2021) – AMD Zen 3+ https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/leo-waldock/leo-and-luke-tech-talk-april-2021-amd-zen-3/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/leo-waldock/leo-and-luke-tech-talk-april-2021-amd-zen-3/#respond Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:00:49 +0000 https://www.kitguru.net/?p=513787 The rumours are flying that AMD will release a Zen 3+ refresh on a TSMC 6nm process some time in 2021, which means we can look forward to updates for Ryzen desktop, Ryzen Mobile and perhaps also new Threadrippers. Luke and Leo take this opportunity to speculate wildly and make no apologies for their blatant attempt to cajole AMD into delivering new CPUs...

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The rumours are flying that AMD will release a Zen 3+ refresh on a TSMC 6nm process some time in 2021, which means we can look forward to updates for Ryzen desktop, Ryzen Mobile and perhaps also new Threadrippers. Luke and Leo take this opportunity to speculate wildly and make no apologies for their blatant attempt to cajole AMD into delivering new CPUs.

Timestamps

00:00​ Start
00:15​ Introduction
00:31​ Leo asks a question
02:32​ 6nm (?) – Roadmap
03:59​ Threadripper / Pro
07:12​ Did we like those Threadrippers?
08:29​ Zen 3 or Zen 3+ Threadripper
09:45​ If the 8 core can do 4.7/4.8 all cores
11:10​ further down the roadmap
12:35​ Timeframes
16:34​ APUs are more critical now than ever!
18:08​ Here’s a real life story about APUs
20:21​ Zen 3+ closing thoughts

KitGuru covered news of TSMC 6nm and AMD Zen 3+ HERE and we are quite sure that Zen3+ will indeed see the light of day in 2021.

The burning question is how AMD will use Zen3+ and whether it will be straight updates to existing products such as Ryzen 7 6800X with 8 cores/16 threads running at 4.8GHz, or might it be a broader approach that delivers different laptop APUS and updates their mighty Threadrippers.

VideoCardz dug deeper to report rumours about APUs and our eyes were drawn to the 45W Rembrandt that is supposed – finally – to unleash Mobile Navi 2 graphics.

That sounds interesting but the big takeaway for Luke and Leo is, of course ‘AMD, give us those Zen 3 Threadrippers already!'

Discuss on our Facebook page HERE.

KitGuru Says: AMD is maintaining the pressure on Intel in the enthusiastic PC market throughout 2021.

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Luke and Leo Get Technical (Ep5) – Zen 3 Rumours and Speculation https://www.kitguru.net/components/luke-hill/luke-and-leo-get-technical-ep5-zen-3-rumours-and-speculation/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/luke-hill/luke-and-leo-get-technical-ep5-zen-3-rumours-and-speculation/#respond Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:00:44 +0000 https://www.kitguru.net/?p=461522 Zen 3 is still likely to be many months away, but the rumour mill has certainly begun churning. Keeping up with AMD's release cadence from Zen, Zen+, and Zen 2, we initially expected to see Zen 3 around Q4 2020. Will this still be the case?...

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Zen 3 is still likely to be many months away, but the rumour mill has certainly begun churning. Keeping up with AMD's release cadence from Zen, Zen+, and Zen 2, we initially expected to see Zen 3 around Q4 2020. However, with the ongoing global issues Luke and Leo wonder whether this will still be the case.

What will Zen 3 offer? And what specifically needs to be upgraded from Zen 2? There are suggestions of more cores per Core Complex (CCX) compared to Zen 2 and that could have interesting influences on inter-core and inter-cache latencies.

Also, could we be in for a bizarre series of naming conventions where Ryzen 4000 is skipped on the desktop and we jump to Ryzen 5000 if the release date proves to be 2021?

Timestamps:

0:16 introduction
1:03 Zen 3 in 2020?
1:39 more cores per complex
2:20 let's rewind a little…
3:26 what about cache
5:01 will Zen 3 be a new architecture?
7:23 but do we need a new architecture?
8:43 talking process node
9:30 increasing clock speed
10:54 continuation of AM4?
13:06 Zen 3 at Computex? Or CES 2021
14:13 back to clock speed…
15:10 will naming conventions change?
16:41 Leo drops an ‘EPYC' joke…
17:03 summing up

Zen 3 in 2020?

  • Zen 3 is still rumoured for 2020 – what could we see?

Will there be an adjustment to the chiplet topology?

  • More cores and cache per Core Complex (CCX) are suggested. What does this mean and what will be the potential outcomes from this?
  • Potential for more localised resources to improve characteristics such as latencies

Significant Architectural Changes on the Horizon?

  • Will Zen 3 be a brand-new architecture?
  • Could we see 10-15% IPC improvement?
  • Higher clock speeds would be a reasonable improvement

Will we continue to use AM4? Is there any need for significant changes?

  • Hopefully we can still use the excellent AM4 platform
  • Which features or characteristics realistically need improvement over Zen 2?

Naming challenges could become realistic

  • Zen 3 desktop CPU naming could be awkward and confusing if it launches in 2021

We could be in for a busy end of year

  • AMD versus Intel should be interesting in late-2020 / early-2021

Since shooting this video, a specific rumour has surfaced suggesting that Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs, which we have to imagine will be Zen 3-based, are to be launched in September. It will be interesting to see if we get any more information pointing to a September launch as the month would fit perfectly with AMD's previous circa-14-month release cadence for Ryzen desktop processors.

Discuss on our Facebook page HERE.

KitGuru says: As Leo so eloquently puts it – “A shark has to keep moving forward.” AMD will want to continue to apply pressure to Intel and Zen 3 looks like the next opportunity to do so on the desktop market. Is there need for significant changes? Can clock speeds improve? How will the parts be named? Will AM4's promised lifespan be extended? Many questions still remain, and the next few months will certainly be interesting.

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Luke and Leo Get Technical (Ep3) – Talking AMD, Nvidia and Intel! https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/luke-hill/luke-and-leo-get-technical-ep3-during-lockdown/ https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/luke-hill/luke-and-leo-get-technical-ep3-during-lockdown/#respond Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:50:17 +0000 https://www.kitguru.net/?p=460604 AMD, Intel, and Nvidia have all been busy with their new laptop products in the form of Ryzen 4000 APUs, 10th Gen Comet Lake-H CPUs, and RTX Super GPUs. Luke and Leo discuss the best bits and highlight their fondness for the ever evolving mobile computing space.

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Laptops, laptops, laptops. AMD, Intel, and Nvidia have all been extremely busy with their new laptop products in the form of Ryzen 4000 APUs, 10th Generation Comet Lake-H CPUs, and RTX Super GPUs. Luke and virtual Leo discuss the best bits and highlight their fondness for the ever evolving and increasingly competitive mobile computing space.

Given the ongoing global issues at the moment, we are having this discussion with Leo calling in via Skype. Let us know what you think of the setup as we aim to bring you more light-hearted content to keep you entertained at this tough time.

TIME STAMPS:

00:16 Introduction
00:44 Skype woes during Lockdown
02:17 Trying to give you content
03:20 Intel and Nvidia to launch new laptop hardware and delays
05:54 The speed of a laptop is down to …
06:20 What is the HK Luke ?
07:00 Laptop discussion
08:06 Ryzen 4000 in ROG Laptop – can Intel compete? and ‘up to’ boost clock discussion
10:55 Down on MSI GS66 Stealth Preview
11:25 Battery Capacity discussion
13:19 Nvidia Mobile Super Graphics confusion and random power discussion
22:10 Type C/Thunderbolt discussion
24:40 Comet Lake H 10th Gen, Lanes, Ice Lake and more
28:28 More laptop discussion
30:37 Ryzen 4000 Discussion Time –
30:53 Asus ROG Zephryus G14
31:22 Ryzen 4000 mobile is not Zen 3 and more tech debate
32:52 Lenovo laptops not in our hands yet
34:02 AMDs Tech Day in February – process nodes and more
35:10 AMDs Proof of concept, the future, and more AMD tech talk
37:37 Luke discusses AMD Power States
39:34 Its all came true
40:00 AMD ‘pure’ laptops
41:02 Locked in forever?!
41:35 AMD+Nvidia v Amd/Amd
43:00 Cinebench results we didn’t believe and more
44:40 Interesting comparison point to Intel
46:38 Lets talk Computex!
47:46 Shift to September issues
49:00 Who has the biggest one?
49:40 Taiwan safe place to live
50:35 Computex highlights
52:45 If people have jobs and funny all brits being related comments
55:20 Computex coverage hopefully will still come
58:00 Leo admires Taiwan
59:05 Computex the Show is different to Computex the event
59.59 Closing Thoughts

Leo and Luke's Notes:

Intel Comet Lake-H and Nvidia Super Laptops

  • Intel and Nvidia launch at the same time, but when can we buy them?
  • Leo has seen the MSI GS66 Stealth and ASUS ROG Zephyrus Duo 15

Intel Comet Lake-H Laptop CPUs Discussion

  • Is Intel 10th Gen Comet Lake-H Interesting or more of the same?
  • Core i9-10980HK up to 5.3GHz!!
  • 10th Gen Power Requirements
  • Funky battery limitations for laptops
  • Would you buy a laptop with a battery too big to take on a plane?

Nvidia Super GPUs

  • Nvidia Super and Max-Q GPUs
  • How do you know if it’s Max-Q or Max-P?
  • Super should be a little faster and more power efficient
  • How much power will Intel 10th Gen + Nvidia Super need?

New Laptops and their ecosystem

  • We like Type-C charging for laptops… but maybe not for gaming laptops!
  • Thunderbolt/Type-C is also a great ecosystem… but also confusing!
  • Ice Lake has a smart Thunderbolt implementation
  • Comet Lake-H provides more PCIe lanes… for Thunderbolt, if you like
  • Is more PCIe Gen 3 lanes better than fewer PCIe Gen 4 lanes for laptops?
  • Up to 128GB of DDR4-2933MHz sound good for your laptop?
  • Should Intel have gone DDR4-3200MHz with Comet Lake-H?

Ryzen 4000 Laptops

  • Leo was impressed by Ryzen 4000 H-series in the ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14
  • Ryzen 4000 is Zen 2 with Vega 7nm. H-series 45W and 35W, and U-series 15W but cTDP up to 25W
  • Latest Zen 2 CPU cores plus previous-gen Vega GPU cores is interesting
  • When will we see Zen 2 plus Navi Laptop APUs?
  • The ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14 is a true ultra-portable powerhouse!
  • A lot of under-the-hood tweaks have gone into Ryzen 4000 Mobile
  • Battery life with Ryzen 4000 is looking positive
  • We’re excited to see Ryzen 4000 U-series 15W/25W APUs
  • AMD is trying to fight Intel head-on with Ryzen 4000
  • The Precision Boost 2 algorithm continues to impress us
  • Ryzen 4000 8-core APUs versus popular Intel 6-core chips will continue to be interesting

Computex 2020 Delayed

  • Computex delayed to the end of September
  • Will the big product launches change schedule accordingly?
  • Computex and Taiwan are very important to our industry
  • Big launches could perhaps be rescheduled by the likes of AMD, Intel, Nvidia

 

KitGuru says: There is plenty of exciting activity in the mobile computing scene at the moment. The next few months could be a great time to be in the market for a new laptop whether you're looking for an ultraportable, a gaming powerhouse, or a workstation-style 14-incher. Let us know what you think in the comments section below!

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